Jason Gray

He’s too busy thinking. That’s the reason you haven’t heard from Centricity singer/songwriter Jason Gray for quite some time. You can tell in the way he meticulously crafts his responses even for us at Soul-Audio, let alone in the songs he releases as his own creations.

Thus, it was interesting to hear from Jason in this time of writer’s block, granting us the chance to gain brilliant insights into the mind of the songwriter. And for those waiting to hear something from the wordsmith, we hope this tides you over.

Soul-Audio: I’d like to start at an obvious place of just hearing what’s happening for your music career at the moment. Can you tell us?

Jason Gray: Well, I released All The Lovely Losers - my first national release through a record label - a little over a year ago. It was actually a re-working of my last independent record that I released in late 2005 called The Better Part Of Me. Centricity bought the masters, repackaged it with new artwork and three new songs, remixed and remastered it for it’s March ‘07 release. I’m happy that these songs have had a long life, but I’ve been living with them for several years now and I’m definitely feeling the desire to sing a “new song.” I’m in a little bit behind the eight ball because Centricity was hoping that I would have a new record this Spring or at the latest this Fall, but as it stands now I don’t have enough songs.

We did a lot of work to support the release of All The Lovely Losers and I was away from home all but eight weeks last year! It’s been good to be busy and I’ve been grateful for the forward momentum that Centricity has helped create for my ministry, but it has made it tricky to find time to write. I’m a notoriously slow writer anyway - my songs have a long gestation period. But I’m taking the next month to hit it hard and I hope to come out the other end of June with the songs I need for the next record.

SA: When you say that it takes a long time for the songs to gestate, why do you think that is? Is that your personality or how much of that is an artistic responsibility to let things marinate properly?

Jason: Y’know, sometimes I have to wait for the song to present itself. Songs are flirtatious that way. They’re like that girl who gives you a look across the room, trying to get your attention, and having succeeded in that, trying to get you to pursue her. You introduce yourself, try to get her name, number, and you ask her out for a coffee. The modest ones who play hard to get are usually the best ones, songs and girls, and it takes time to get to know them. Songs are like that. I’m hopelessly cerebral so it seems to take me longer to discover what the song wants to be, what the heart of it is.

On my last record, “Grace” took me four years to write. I wrote it once as a slow burn soulful kind of ballad, then again as a Beatle-esque pop tune, and finally as a summer-time folk/R&B groove with shades of Van Morrison, in my mind anyway. I liked the other versions, but the final one was the right one, I think.

The other part of the problem is that I agonize over every lyric. I try to mean every single word and also to not draw attention, in most cases, to the words by being self-consciously clever or poetic. I was listening to an interview with a recent national poet laureate who talked about a trip he took on a glass bottomed boat as a boy and how magical it was for him to look through this window into another world that before then he couldn’t even have imagined. He was lost in that moment until the spell was broken when someone dropped their sunglasses on the floor of the boat. When they hit the glass, he was abruptly yanked out of this magical underwater world and reminded that he was just on a glass-bottomed boat.

I sometimes think that when we are too clever it’s akin to “dropping the glasses”. It’s like pulling the curtain back and showing the wizard of Oz pulling his levers. The wizard’s machinery is impressive, but the bodiless face with the booming voice was more effective. Don’t get me wrong, I love a clever turn of a phrase, but sometimes I think the best writer-craft is the kind that’s invisible. It’s not as sexy, but I think there’s virtue to it.

On the flip side is my other fault, which is that I suspect that many of my songs are over-wrought. The great songwriter Leonard Cohen talks about the Old Testament command to build altars with unhewn stones. He tries to follow that rule in his songs, restraining himself from over-crafting a lyric. I, on the other hand, am probably guilty of shaping every stone to make them fit together too neatly. So striking all these balances takes a lot of time.

I know this answer is dreadfully long, but this is something I’m thinking a lot about lately since I’ve been suffering from the worst bout of writer’s block I’ve ever known. I think a part of my block is that I have so many people in my mental bleachers now; Leonard Cohen, the poet laureate, my label, the world of radio and the Christian marketplace, my peers and those I respect, music critics, the average person in the audience, etc., just to name a few - that any one of those voices is quick to shoot down any idea that comes along.

It’s hard to make all those people happy. An idea will always be too commercial, too artsy, too heady, too whatever. So the challenge is trying to get all those people in the bleachers to quiet down and have a seat so you can just write. I’m also at an age and level of maturity where I realize that I don’t know as much as I’ve always thought. This kind of humility is good as a human, but not so good for an artist. Arrogance serves an artist well, the confidence that your every idea is amazing and compelling gives you the courage to be less measured and cautious and certainly to be more productive.

SA: This period of writer’s block… is this a very fearful thing? What is that like on the inside or is it no big deal in some ways because you know you’ll eventually break this?

Jason: Oh man, it’s one of the scariest things ever! Since my ministry is primarily music driven, it feels like your ministry is drying up. Imagine, too, having to preach the same sermon for the better part of three years. This particular writer’s block is different from what I’ve experienced before. It’s complicated in that it’s not a creative block in general, but it’s more an issue of feeling blocked of a very specific kind of output.

Whether I like it or not, I have to be sensitive to who my audience is. If I was just writing music for myself and for my own enjoyment and expression, that would be one thing, but I serve others with my work so I have to be cognitive of speaking their language and giving them something they can receive. I can do songs of self-expression about my story that as an artist I feel proud of, but the challenge for me is to do it in a way that will connect others to their own story. This can get crass when you talk in terms of writing a song for Christian radio, but really it’s a question of writing a song that appeals to somebody besides me.

For instance, this weekend I was doing a concert for a church audience. There was a song that I had planned to play in my set; a song that for me is artistically satisfying and gives me life to play it but when I got to that point in the set, I knew that though it was true, provacative, artistic, etc, that it wasn’t the right song for the people before me. If I played it, I would most likely lose them. So I opted instead to play a song that I knew would ‘hit’ and also happens to be a song that I really don’t like singing and that I feel isn’t as deep or artistic. But it worked. It got their attention and made it possible for me to go a little deeper on the last two songs.

Was it a compromise to switch songs? I don’t think so. I hope not, anyways. It was, however, a calculated decision to meet those people where they were at, which I think is a Christian principle. I sincerely believe that my vocation has more to do with being a minister who sings than it does with being an artist. This is frustrating for me sometimes; I’m an artist at heart but it has it’s own rewards. That isn’t to say that artists who make art for art’s sake are somehow inferior. On the contrary, I consider theirs a very high calling and that is the kind of work that ministers to me. So all this to say, I have plenty of ideas that I’m working on, but few that seem likely to connect with the audience I usually am entrusted with.

SA: You said arrogance is good for an artist - can you expand on that thought a bit? Is that just about having the courage to go with your instincts?

Jason: I was talking with a well known artist whose name I’ll omit to protect the innocent. But he was talking about his kids and how one of them is extremely smart and pursues excellence in all she does. Because she’s so critical, however, she’s quick to shut down any idea she’s working on that fails to meet her high standard. Because of that, she has very low output and many of her good ideas are squelched before they have a chance to develop. Her brother on the other hand may not be as critical or even as deep, but is blissfully unaware of that and believes everything he does is great! Because of that, he’s bolder and produces a lot more and is having more success.

I think Bono is a good example of this, too. Early U2 may not have been brilliant, but they knew they were great and their youthful arrogance carried them a great distance. And their later work really did catch up with their ego and they are a brilliant band who lived up to their ambitions. That’s what I mean when I say that self awareness and suspicion are healthy for us as humans, but perhaps not so great as artists. It takes a certain amount of arrogance to sit down and write a song that you assume other people will care about. If you thought too much about it, you may not write anything at all. I’m at a time in my life, a time of maturity and humbling self-reflection, where I’m probably thinking too much about it.

SA: How do you begin to break out of the creative funk?

Jason: There are a number of tricks I’ve tried in the past, that don’t seem to working this time around. Like I said, I can write, I’m just having a hard time writing the right kind of song. For instance, “Blessed Be” was the right kind of song off of my last record. I hoped to write a hopeful song about brokenness based on the beautitudes. You could approach that any number of ways, but I wrote it with Joel Hanson and it came out as this sweet little pop song, 3 1/2 minutes long, melodic, and with the least amount of lyrics I think I’ve ever written in a song. It has a decent hook, is fun to play, and it has a broad appeal. I’m SO grateful for that song!

It came as a gift, I think we wrote it in 3 hours, and it has done more to expose people to my ministry than any other song. It’s both artistically and commercially satisfying. I think I’ve been too busy and there just isn’t the space in my life to properly be quiet and receive those kinds of songs. So that’s what I’m trying to do now; make space to rest, listen, and receive. There are other things I do to stimulate my heart and mind that have to do with books I choose to read or films I watch.

I remember years ago when I first watched The Shawshank Redemption. I came home and wrote three songs. So films and stories that move me always help. I’m trying to fill myself up with good theology, too. I subscribe to a number of podcasts that feed me. I find when I’m healthiest as a human I’m also pretty healthy as an artist. I’ve been running on empty in terms of sleep, relationships, time to reflect, etc. for the last year, and so I’m trying to get filled up with life again. The best songs are overflows, when your life is full of love, or yearning, or gratitude, or a desire for deeper meaning.

I’ve also been so engrossed in the music industry that all my conversations have been music or artist related. I think it’s good to get out of that and have regular conversations about life, kids, marriage, etc. with regular people. Otherwise all yours songs end up being about how hard it is to be on the road; who relates to that? Listening to new music is stimulating, too. Daniel Lanois’ film and soundtrack Here Is What Is and Arcade Fire’s new record are giving me some musical juice right now.

SA: What are the expectations for this next album since you’re already past deadline?

Jason: I think we’re all hoping for an album that is commercially viable. I would like to make an album that justifies being with a label, so one that is artistic and ministry oriented enough for me to believe in it, but also that has some songs that are eligible for radio airplay. I think you can accomplish that without compromise, though it’s the hardest thing to do.

SA: You mentioned that you think it’s possible but that it’s the hardest thing to do - to reach that proper tension between artistry, commerciality and ministry. Which of those three is the hardest and which is the easiest?

Jason: I think it’s easiest to be self-expressive, and even poetic. It’s harder to connect that to other’s experiences, to be selfless and serve with my music. I want to love my audience and not alienate them. That doesn’t mean I dumb anything down. On the contrary, I consciously want to call people up and help them be more thoughtful, more engaged. But that means I have to be sensitive to where they are at.

I was on tour several years ago with an artist who is one of the finest artists in Christian music. She is thoughtful, artistic, deep, and compelling. At the time, however, I unfairly judged some of her songs as being too happy or simple, they weren’t edgy or ‘real’ enough to me. But night after night I watched as these same simple songs would meet her audience where they were at and give them the words to voice their own longings. She spoke their language and helped them to speak it better themselves. It was at that time that I realized I had been self-righteously occupied with self-indulgent artistic ideals and things that mattered only to me like true rhymes, two layers of metaphors, scansion, etc.

There’s a place for the kind of music that I personally get excited about, but it became more important to me to serve with my music, and because I’m a lesser known artist I usually play to the average church attendee who happens to be at the service I’m playing at. So I have to learn to write for them. But what is increasingly the most challenging aspect is to really minister through song in the Christian marketplace. I mean, you can give people goose-bumps and make them cry and feel like they’ve been ministered to, but to get to the heart of things that really matter is difficult.

It often feels like the evangelical sub-culture of people who consume Christian music want to be placated more than they want to be stirred. I recently had to change a lyric in the song on my album with the most ministry value. It said “I’d rid my whole house of its demons of lust and open the window to trust.” Apparently the average Christian radio listener doesn’t want to be confronted with the idea of “demons of lust.” Sometimes it feels like real engagement and spiritual growth are counter culture in this environment. If you want to really grow deeper, or ask the better questions it’s almost like a rebellion.

• www.jasongraymusic.com
• www.myspace.com/jasongraymusic

↓ 7 comments

#1 Kaitlyn on July 3rd, 2008 at 3:24 pm

This is probably one of the best interviews I have ever read with Jason Gray. I love that he was so real and honest in all of his answers. Thanks for taking the time to sit down with him and do this!

#2 Deena H on July 3rd, 2008 at 4:37 pm

Absolutely. We met Jason on tour with downhere and were so impressed with him. Musically I though “Why havn’t I heard of him before?” Personally he is the sweetest guy. He was out in the lobby hanging out with everyone, playing with a dog with my boys. It was great to see another side of him.

#3 Bruce S on July 4th, 2008 at 3:19 pm

Jason is a real, honest, open, passionate, and truthful song writer/singer and person. Only wish there was someone like him around when I was going through my wandering stage many years ago. His music, stories and talks always inspire me. Great interview.

#4 Mike Westendorf on July 4th, 2008 at 10:11 pm

Jason is a great mentor by his actions, his openness and honesty about his journey, his desires, his struggles, his loves. As an artist, I appreciate his willingness to share the ride the way he does, as a person pursuing his Savior, it is a joy to watch and listen to.

#5 The Rabbit Room on July 8th, 2008 at 5:26 am

[...] more at soul-audio.com and then leave a comment there to let Matt know what you thought of the article.  Thanks! Leave [...]

#6 Tony Heringer on July 8th, 2008 at 6:47 pm

Good work Matt. I’ll post to Jason on RR. This is a good look into the mind of a song writer. The music business is just that–the business of music. Here we have a man clearly at the cross roads in his career. You painted that picture very well lad.

Cheers!

#7 MattConner.net » Blog Archive » S-A Interview: Jason Gray on August 12th, 2008 at 1:32 pm

[...] can read the rest of the interview here. Posted in Soul-Audio | Leave a [...]

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